Compare and contrast...

[Tor]

Ok I've had a few little trips in my DK and I'm getting to know what I want in a "boat".

I'm not going camping in it but I will fish from it. I will paddle it by myself but mostly will have a small passenger or two (I get 5 in the DK canoe, pictures will be available soon...).

The DK is really hard to keep on line in the wind so a low wind signature and a keel. Stability is important to provide confidence to some of my passengers, my daughters are not that confident in the canoe although I could lower the seats a bit.

Now I like the Cape fear and the North/South wind but what's the difference between a decked canoe and a kayak with an open cockpit?, there's obviously a subtle difference but it's lost on me. It doesn't appear that anyone has built a decked canoe and a open kayak (yet) so a direct comparison may be difficult however I'll be happy with theory for now...

and as you can see I haven't decided what to build next, yet.

thanks,

Tor

[jem]

The difference is primarily the name.

But also, a decked canoe will tend to be wider and a little deeper then a kayak. Cockpits tend to be longer in a canoe.

[hairymick]

G'day Tor,

How many do you want to take fishing? total weight?

How far do you plan on paddling?

Are you planning on paddling open, enclosed or semi open waters?

Have a look at Matts new Wabanaki 15. It is still an open canoe but is magnificent in its simplicity and functionality. I would expect it to be a superior performer in every way to your big DK.

I will be building one of these next, mainly as a solo fishing boat but also as an occassional tandem

[Kayak Jack]

Matt has pointed out most of the differences. Also, generally, you sit on the floor of a kayak and on a seat in a canoe. I have a kayak, from which I removed much of the deck. My "kaynoe" has the underwater hull of a kayak, or a decked canoe

[Tor]

Gents,

Mick, 80-160kg max for the weight most of the tandem paddling will be for 2-3 hours max and mainly just to keep the kids interested and have some wet fun (maybe a little fishing). Tandem paddling will be on protected lakes (or arms of he larger Gippsland lakes) or rivers.

I'm likely to try a bit of more open water (Westernport Bay/Port Philip Bay) and be in it for up to 6 hours fishing, I think 6 hours would be rare and the max but you never know.

I had a look at the Wabanaki 15 and still fancy the Sasquatch family

Jack, I've asked you about your kaynoe before and I do like the lines of it and I could see opening up the cockpit on the Okwata may work for me in a similar way.

Matt,

of the cape fear and north/south winds which is easiest to paddle in a straight line which turns which would handle a bit of running water (gentle rapids).

Thanks for the feedback,

Tor

Thanks for the feedback it's getting me closer

[jem]

For tracking, the Cape Fear and south Wind would have the edge. North Wind will be more maneuverable due to it's hull shape.

[Tor]

I've just found Mick's 2007 build log of the south wind (excellent and detailed as usual). There were some modifications he suggested regarding the wind signature, were these included in the "public release" of the plans? I assume that if so they were also included in the shorter design too?

I'm leaning toward the Southwind 15-30, is there scope to open up the cockpit more?

Mick seemed to have some difficulty aligning the bow is this still something that would cause some difficulties?

Does the hull need to be completely glassed inside and out or could it be taped internally I'm also assuming you recommend ~4mm ply with 6oz cloth.

This may be my project after the holidays when the weather down here is a little more predictable.

Tor

[hairymick]

G'day Tor,

Thanks mate.

Here is a link to a review i did on my boat.

http://jemwatercraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2021

The Southwind 17 is magnificent in all aspects.

Re the bow, The problem was of my own making. I was trying to get too much done in any given day.

If I were to build another one of these boats (or something similar, I think I would sheath the entire outside of the hull and tape the inside I would do it this way because the tape is way easier to wet out and get to conform to the hull shape than the cloth.

[jem]

I've just found Mick's 2007 build log of the south wind (excellent and detailed as usual). There were some modifications he suggested regarding the wind signature, were these included in the "public release" of the plans?

He mentioned the wind signature as compared to a sea kayak. Not much that can be done about that comparison. A decked canoe is a slightly larger boat. The 15-30 has a little bit less height than the 17-9 version.

I'm leaning toward the Southwind 15-30, is there scope to open up the cockpit more?

Possible. How big of an opening are you look for?

Mick seemed to have some difficulty aligning the bow is this still something that would cause some difficulties?

If I remember correctly, that's what inspired the alignment jig... which is included in both versions of the South Wind.

Does the hull need to be completely glassed inside and out or could it be taped internally I'm also assuming you recommend ~4mm ply with 6oz cloth.

You could only tape the interior and use epoxy coverage on remaining bare wood. But you'll find that once you've taped everything, there won't be much bare wood left. You'll spend about twice the time it takes to cover the interior with fiberglass cloth dealing with feathering edge of the fiberglass tape.

It's a bear to get the cloth to behave on the hull interior sometimes. But if you take your time, do a dry-run with the cloth, prep your work area, and maybe get someone to pump the epoxy, it goes pretty quickly. You could do it in 3 sections to make it easier.

4mm ply and 6-ounce is the standard layup.

[Tor]

Possible. How big of an opening are you look for?

I'm not sure I'll know until I've got in front of me, would it be reasonable to make the deck to the plans and test fit and the see if a few inches here or there make it easier for a passenger to get in/out.

If I remember correctly, that's what inspired the alignment jig... which is included in both versions of the South Wind.

That makes life easier.

Re the bow, The problem was of my own making. I was trying to get too much done in any given day.

and that makes it fit in with the speed I work ie slowly and I have too as this is going to be a much better build than the DK which I learned so much

Doing the inside cloth in 3 sections sounds like a plan, I have enough problems with the epoxy (sensitive little chap I am ) without exposing Mrs Tor or the Boy to the chemicals.

I can feel a purchase coming on...

Tor