scottrunnr's Tandem Fishing SOT

scottrunnr · Post by **scottrunnr** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:59 am

Thanks Mick! It's been fun having my daughter help out. I want her to feel like it's her boat to. I can't wait for her to catch her first bluefish or striper from the kayak!

I've really enjoyed following the progress of your Wadefish/Kadaitchi. It's been been very helpful for me as well! Please get some more pics out there. I check every day to see your latest progress!

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:21 pm

I've really enjoyed following the progress of your Wadefish/Kadaitchi. It's been been very helpful for me as well! Please get some more pics out there. I check every day to see your latest progress!

Mate, I hope you are not copying all the mistakes I am making.

Craig Lewis · Post by **Craig Lewis** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:03 pm

scottrunnr wrote:Matt, you are a genius! The way everything comes together from your design, kit, and instructions is incredible. The bow alignment jig was a masterstroke! I'm really having fun with this. The hard part now is holding back the excitement and proceeding at a slow and careful pace.

Hi Scott,
Part of the slow pace should include watching out for hull twist while your filleting. How much practice filleting have you done? I used blue tape as a temp back support to all fillets.
After all filleting and before/during permanent glueing the cockpit well, you need to think about 1/4inch tee-nuts inside for handles, rod holders, etc. HW. Using a nail, string you can "fish" the tee-nut to the hard to reach areas. Even thru frame holes can roll the kayak and by trial&error you eventually learn how to position the tee-nut. I suggest drill a hole the exact same diameter as the tee-nut diameter so an initial squeeze fit (by threading the bolt temporaily) is achieved.
I was able to get four tee-nuts positioned even after permanent encapcilating the cockpit well by "fishing" thru the frame holes. The sequence is tie nylon string to a finish nail, put nail thru hole from outside mounting location, roll/lift/giggle kayak until the nail comes to the front or rear panel (before it is installed), remove nail and put end of string thru hole (same direction as bolt threaded), tie a series of half-knots until the bulk of hte knot is 125% of the thru-hole, carefully pull the string from the mounting location until you can see the tee-nut near the opening, then finally position it as aligned as possible and give a good hard tug on the string. Either it stays in correct position or it falls inside and you start all over again!
Great job so far!!!
Craig
California Sabalo

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:21 pm

Mick,

I wanna go back for a bit to the hull twist you experienced. Been thinking about this for while. May have an explanation, may not.

There is a sequencing to tightening wires when you start to install them. Generally, start at the middle of the boat, and work your way evenly towards each end. The operative word here, is evenly.

IE: If you put a wire in to the left side and forward of center, the next wire should be to the right and aft of center. Then either right and forward or left and aft. Then, repeat a similar pattern working outwards. (If you've ever torqued a head on a gas engine, you'll recognize the pattern. Or if you torque lugnuts on a wheel, you'll recognize the pattern.)

The pattern is to criss-cross the pressure, and apply it in stages and incremental steps. This evens out the pressure that is trying to reform the hull, or whatever object is being tightened upon.

If wires were to be twisted all up and down one side first, it would twist that side, and pull it slightly out of line. This induced twist would not be removed or equaled by next applying all the wires to the other side of the boat. The procedure must be done incrementally and cross-geometrically.

Of course, I may be going back over plowed ground in that you already know this and did apply the general technique. In which case, I'm out of sync with reality again, and will have to go sip some single malt to recalibrate my gyros.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:11 am

Hi Jack,

Thank you for pondering my mistake with the bow on my boat and also for your very well thought out suggestions mate.

What you suggested makes a world of sense to me had I been building on unfixed temporary frames. However I was building on a rigid strong back with the temp hull stations firmly fixed in place. Each hull panel was tied to the preceding one (and to the strong back) which had already been very firmly fixed in place onto the frame on the strong back.

I believe that the mistake was mine alone in that I did not properly check everything for fairness before I started to tack. I don’t understand how I missed it but I did.

To avoid the possibility of this happening with the next one I build, ( there, I am already planning the next one)

I will be incorporating onto the strong back temporary bow and stern frames on centre and vertical and the hull panels will be stitched to this.

Again, thanks mate.

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:09 am

Mick,

I appreciate and understand the rigidity of a strongback arrangement. Even that, however, would likely not preclude an induced twist in a hull if a builder did wire up one side at a time. The panels would be inexorably pulled out of line. Even solid, rigid castings like engine heads (of cast iron, no less) and wheels of aluminum or titanium or wheel will be warped and misshappened by such use.

I know you didn't do that, so it is only a point for discussion. And, shucks, maybe I shouldn't have even brought it up. Let's drop it.

scottrunnr · Post by **scottrunnr** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:28 am

Craig,
wow that technique gives real meaning to the term "fishing kayak"!

Very clever. I'm hoping to install a lot of the deck hardware onto the deck before actually installing the deck. Same with the cockpit hardware. Whatever I can't or realize after the fact that I missed, I will definately use your technique. I'm also toying with idea of using aircraft pop-rivets. How do you feel about them?

I got some practice filleting by doing the cockpit first. The hard corners of the cockpit were a great way to learn the process. And since the outside of the cockpit will never be seen, the pressure was off. The blue tape was very useful.

By the way, your forum topic and photos have been very helpful!

Craig Lewis · Post by **Craig Lewis** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:10 pm

scottrunnr wrote:Craig,
I'm also toying with idea of using aircraft pop-rivets. How do you feel about them?
I got some practice filleting by doing the cockpit first. !

Scott,
The aircraft "blind rivets" are good, except if the accessory attachment is designed for screws or bolts which is the case more often. Using both types is probably the way to go.
I searched "filleting techniques" on the Guillemot user board archives and got lots of help with application. Going slow on the panels is a good approach so you learn how to mold, "tend" before things set-up.
I think when Matt suggests "tack weld" he means do a few inches between the cable ties preferably alternating sides and ends so can watch-out for hull twist as things progressively get stiffened throughout the hull. Then remove the stitches to fillet the remainder. Don't go for the finished-look too soon, you'll more likely have hull-twist.

http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi

Craig

paddling4sharks · Post by **paddling4sharks** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:34 pm

Mornin';
Looks good Scott

scottrunnr · Post by **scottrunnr** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:48 pm

I finished tack welding the hull and sanded the exterior. The random orbital sander is now my best buddy! See pictures below. I'm ready to glass one side of the hull exterior. Any suggestions on how to handle glassing the spots where the saw horse meets the hull?