white graphite?

jlparsons · Post by **jlparsons** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:03 pm

Ok, forth new topic in two days, I promise I'll shut up soon. But this looks very interesting!

I Saw this whilst messing about on the web:
http://clearstreamwood.com/WordPress/ka ... asion-test

According to the outcome of the test, it's virtually identical in physical properties to the black stuff but gives a nice glossy white finish. I was going to use a solid colour anyway, probably brilliant red, and I thought that mixing this with coloured additive might give a rock hard glossy finish. If not, I'd settle for the plain white. Worth it for that toughness.

Problem is, the writer keeps his cards close to his chest... anyone know where this stuff comes from? I assume it's either boron nitride or titanium oxide powder, but he doesn't say.

Post by **jem** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:28 pm

hexagonal boron nitride is nick-named "white graphite".

But it's WAY expensive.

I'm going to try some teflon powder http://www.epoxyproducts.com/2_fillers.html

jlparsons · Post by **jlparsons** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:08 pm

Got a supplier here:

http://www.zypcoatings.com/ProductPages/BnPowder.htm

Also will have a look for titanium oxide, I know from my chemist days that it's hard as nails, pure white and i don't think it's too expensive as it gets used as pigment for household paints.

Teflon looks good as a friction coating, but it's not a hard substance i thought?

Jimmy W · Post by **Jimmy W** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:27 pm

This site has the Hexagonal Boron Nitride for $40 for a one pound sample. One pound should do for several boats. I've been thinking about trying it myself, maybe several of us could split a pound.

http://www.lowerfriction.com/pricing_hbn.php

jlparsons · Post by **jlparsons** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:14 pm

Yeah that aughta do it, though I'm in the UK so postage is an issue. I was thinking of using graphite on the bottom so I'd only need the white stuff for the top anyway so I'd need even less.

The supplier I quoted above sells BN powder but I think it's cubic rather than hexagonal. Cubic is very very hard, nearly diamond hard, but I don't think it's any use as an industrial lubricant so it may not make hulls slippery. So it'll be only semi-useful for the bottom, but for the top of the boat it may in fact be better. Could give you a rock hard, non slip surface...

EDIT: Scratch that, i'm pretty sure the above link is hexagonal. But it might be worth sourcing some cubic.

jlparsons · Post by **jlparsons** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:36 am

Ok, update -

Titanium dioxide powder is so cheap as to be effectively free in the quantities we need as it's produced in enormous quantities worldwide. It has a hardness of 7 on the mohs scale, equal to quartz. It's brilliant white in colour and has an extremely high reflective index, so possible UV protection as well. It has been used to mix with epoxy as a dye in the past, you need only very small quantities to turn epoxy brilliant white. I'm thinking if we mix it 20/80 or so it might have a similar effect to graphite.

That's got to be worth some testing!

Oldsparkey · Post by **Oldsparkey** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:38 am

jem wrote:hexagonal boron nitride is nick-named "white graphite".

But it's WAY expensive.

I'm going to try some teflon powder http://www.epoxyproducts.com/2_fillers.html

Matt...

I used the Interlux Brightsides "Teflon " Paint on the one kayak and then again on the latest build the Sasquatch 14 x 30. Paint might be a bad word since it is sort of an epoxy/poly base and not a normal paint base paint.

Here is what they say about it....................
( Brightside Polyurethane is the most technically advanced one-part polyurethane available. Brightside now contains Teflon« for better resistance to staining, abrasion and easy cleaning.

Brightside uses Polyflow 4000«, a unique polyurethane resin, which yields excellent flow and leveling characteristics as well as incredible abrasion and chemical resistance. Brightside also takes advantage of the latest in ultraviolet technology which insures longer color and gloss retention.

Together these technologies create a one-part polyurethane which gives the look of a two-part polyurethane with the application ease of a one-part enamel. )

It is not as abrasion resistance as the graphite and epoxy ( Which I have on all the other boats ) but it is better then normal paint or just epoxy and glass. Plus it is some slippery stuff when in the water and paddling. I contacted them to find out the % of Teflon in it but they have that amount guarded and will not say. If memory serves me from years past I think it is a 20% mix. That is from when they put the amount on the can.

The kayak and now the canoe are paddled with care and not abused so I feel safe with that on the hull while the others got the graphite and do run over things. Besides 99% of our water ways (fresh water) are sandy rivers and lakes.

That is there Hatteras White on the hull..........

Chuck.

Post by **jem** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:20 pm

They must have to thin the paint a bit and then add the Teflon. Probably adjust the color tint as well.

I send an email to System Three:

For wooden canoes and kayaks, builders are always looking for way to get a tougher surface on the bottoms of their hulls. Many mix graphite powder into some epoxy and coat the bottom.

Their is a one-part polyurethane on the market that has Teflon mixed into the paint for better resistance to staining, abrasion and easy cleaning.

Could this be achieved by adding Teflon to your LPU paint? Besides possibly affecting the color, what other draw backs might their be? I imagine the paint would be thicker and not work well in a spray application.

Any info you could offer would be appreciated.

We'll see if they reply back. Their tech guys are pretty arrogant and don't like dealing with smaller customers.

Oldsparkey · Post by **Oldsparkey** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:10 pm

I wish you the best of luck , I could not get to 1st base with Interlux , either by computer or a land line call. They clamed up when I asked what the Teflon amount was in the paint.

I am sure there is some in it or the goverment would be on them like stink on a skunk if there wasn't. The question was a easy one.

Chuck.

Post by **jem** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:20 pm

I'm thinking of trying Teflon powder in epoxy with some white pigment added. I'm not 100% sure if that would offer any UV protection but it gives another color option for the bottom.

The kicker is how much white pigment would a person need to add to get it a solid color and not a milky one?